Accepted [Suggestion] Change Death Request

[Eight]

I understand where you are coming from but I don't see any actual problem that is being caused by REDs killing BLUs for DR, and skimming over the thread I haven't noticed much examples besides that "it is just wrong." If anything, it would cause more issues to make change something so traditional such as this. For some points mentioned though:

• Wastes time - IMO REDs being allowed to freely kill BLUs makes DR go by quicker, since then the RED can just kill the BLUs and end the round, as opposed to not being able to and either need to do an activity (which I would bet a lot would do and would most of the time take longer) or suicide/get killed by BLUs (which probably will be frequent too but not as much). Although, I would be open to supporting a shortening of the time from 2 minutes to 1 and a half, but that doesn't seem to be the point of this thread.
• Custom LR takes care of this - Custom LRs (and LRs in general) only really apply to the next round, not the current round, so I don't really follow

 

[Olaves]

I understand where you are coming from but I don't see any actual problem that is being caused by REDs killing BLUs for DR, and skimming over the thread I haven't noticed much examples besides that "it is just wrong." If anything, it would cause more issues to make change something so traditional such as this. For some points mentioned though:

• Wastes time - IMO REDs being allowed to freely kill BLUs makes DR go by quicker, since then the RED can just kill the BLUs and end the round, as opposed to not being able to and either need to do an activity (which I would bet a lot would do and would most of the time take longer) or suicide/get killed by BLUs (which probably will be frequent too but not as much). Although, I would be open to supporting a shortening of the time from 2 minutes to 1 and a half, but that doesn't seem to be the point of this thread.
• Custom LR takes care of this - Custom LRs (and LRs in general) only really apply to the next round, not the current round, so I don't really follow

Yeah that's the point. It's just wrong which is why I suggested it be changed. I wrote it after I realised that many people in the servers also agree with me that a warden should say "how would you like to die?". I'm not too bothered about how it delays the round since any death request would waste some time but it's the fact that it just kind of acts as a 2nd LR when the red is allowed to do whatever they want after they've received their first one. It's just unfair. Besides, if the warden words it like "how would you like to die", the round will be over within a minute unlike other death requests where the majority of people like to take as long as they can. This, again, is from experience since a warden was wording it just like that yesterday on jailbreak and the reds were either jumping into sweeper or killing themselves in console. It had a much more positive response from all the players too.

If it's really just an umbrella term on how to end the round, the time that the red is allowed should be lowered to 30 seconds max. Having a 2 minute allowance is not ending the round. It's dragging it.

From the feedback I've received, it appears that the majority of PLAYERS in the servers agree with me and want this changed to reflect an actual death request once I've explained to them my point of view whilst the majority of staff members don't think it is a necessary change. But I understand your point about how it may cause problems to change such a traditional problem. I think it'll take a week or so for the majority of players to adjust to the new rule through word of mouth.

 

[Malfunction]

From the feedback I've received, it appears that the majority of PLAYERS in the servers agree with me

And where is this feedback? I see no polls, no discussion with a large number of people agreeing with you, etc.
The 6 or so people agreeing with you here doesn't exactly count as a majority and as mentioned, I don't see anything else saying that the mass majority agree with this supposed change.

 

[TheMinecraftPoke]

And where is this feedback? I see no polls, no discussion with a large number of people agreeing with you, etc.
The 6 or so people agreeing with you here doesn't exactly count as a majority and as mentioned, I don't see anything else saying that the mass majority agree with this supposed change.

Could you add to the argument

 

[Olaves]

And where is this feedback? I see no polls, no discussion with a large number of people agreeing with you, etc.
The 6 or so people agreeing with you here doesn't exactly count as a majority and as mentioned, I don't see anything else saying that the mass majority agree with this supposed change.

I literally said in the servers. Most people who play on the servers don't have a forums account and I'm not gonna tell them to make one just so they can comment on this thread with their opinions. The reason I made this thread in the first place is because it wasn't just something that I personally thought should be changed, but because many agreed with me on the fact that it should be changed from feedback within the servers.

 

[1999alpha]

I dont really agree, it's completely pointless to just not allow them to kill guards just to follow the literal meaning of the sentence, also it takes less time than doing a mini game for a death request.

 

[Eight]

Could you add to the argument

No Malfunction brings up a good point—where is this support? As much as I do not think anyone is lying, in all of my experience of playing Jailbreak on here I haven't seen what I could call a majority of people against the current DR system, in fact most people don't seem to complain. Granted, I will say to you and Olaves's favor that I have not specifically surveyed people on this topic, but if the forums is a microcosm of the greater opinion of players in-game at all, then the opinions on this are fairly mixed, even excluding me and @Captain Weeb if, as Olaves says;

the majority of staff members don't think it is a necessary change.

it's the fact that it just kind of acts as a 2nd LR when the red is allowed to do whatever they want after they've received their first one. It's just unfair.

Could you clarify by what standards this is unfair? A RED only earns it for being the last non-rebeller alive, which is easier said than done, and having both LR and DR as a reward for the last RED isn't something quite new to the Jailbreak scene either.

If it's really just an umbrella term on how to end the round, the time that the red is allowed should be lowered to 30 seconds max. Having a 2 minute allowance is not ending the round. It's dragging it.

Yeah I would agree that it is essentially an umbrella term. I also would agree on possibly lowering the time, but I think 30 seconds is too short to do anything, at that point we might as well just not have it at all.

 

[Olaves]

No Malfunction brings up a good point—where is this support?

Fair enough. Basically, in the servers whenever I complain about DR (yes I complain about it sometimes) and I always say stuff like "DR should be how you request to die, not an excuse to kill blues" etc etc, there are always people in the servers who agree with me or when I explain my viewpoint to them about DR, they say it makes sense and it should be like that etc. Bearing in mind, I do only complain about it when the red is intentionally delaying or just pointlessly killing the blues so all the dead people are more likely to agree with me because they are fed up of waiting.

having both LR and DR as a reward for the last RED isn't something quite new to the Jailbreak scene either.

This is true but the issue is, within the Jailbreak scene, most death requests are just "how would you like to die" rather than just the reds killing the blues, which is what I've suggested we change it to. This is the only community where I find that the reds are just allowed to kill the blues after LR and it doesn't count as rebelling. Again, I may be wrong because I haven't played on many other communities in a long time but 2 years ago, if a DR was granted, it always used to be "how would you like to die". OR else the community just banned DR altogether. I'm all for having a DR! I don't want WL to ban it. I just don't like the fact the DR is not fun for anyone except the red who won LR.

I think 30 seconds is too short to do anything, at that point we might as well just not have it at all.

The thing is, if it's just an umbrella term to end the round, the round should be ended ASAP. 30 seconds is quite a generous time in my opinion, considering it takes like 10 seconds to kill 3- 4 blues. I, personally, don't want to lower the time for death request because I think the red deserves one. Just not in the style this community currently allows.

also it takes less time than doing a mini game for a death request.

Not true. 80% of reds take up the whole 2 minutes to complete their death request. A minigame will not take that long. Besides, a minigame was just a suggestion. In my experience, most people will either just melee fight to the death or kill themselves from console/sweeper.

 

[Infinity]

Well yeah it really should be blues killing the red instead of reds killing the blues..

 

[Eight]

Fair enough. Basically, in the servers whenever I complain about DR (yes I complain about it sometimes) and I always say stuff like "DR should be how you request to die, not an excuse to kill blues" etc etc, there are always people in the servers who agree with me or when I explain my viewpoint to them about DR, they say it makes sense and it should be like that etc. Bearing in mind, I do only complain about it when the red is intentionally delaying or just pointlessly killing the blues so all the dead people are more likely to agree with me because they are fed up of waiting.

Alright, I understand.

This is true but the issue is, within the Jailbreak scene, most death requests are just "how would you like to die" rather than just the reds killing the blues, which is what I've suggested we change it to. This is the only community where I find that the reds are just allowed to kill the blues after LR and it doesn't count as rebelling. Again, I may be wrong because I haven't played on many other communities in a long time but 2 years ago, if a DR was granted, it always used to be "how would you like to die". OR else the community just banned DR altogether. I'm all for having a DR! I don't want WL to ban it. I just don't like the fact the DR is not fun for anyone except the red who won LR.

I don't know the specifics of other community's Jailbreak rules either. But that is besides the point, I get what you mean by that last sentence, as it functions mainly as a reward for the last RED and so fun to the BLUs comes secondary. At the same time though, I don't feel like people specifically derive much displeasure from DRs and that it ruins any fun. I know that doesn't necessarily indicate a positive outlook on it, but it doesn't indicate a negative one either, and so I'm hesitant to fully agree with you despite how it is, again, not the best for BLUs. The only way to confirm either of our beliefs on people's outlooks even would be surveying, which can certainly be done, but judging by the neutrality I've usually seen during DR I question it's necessity.

The thing is, if it's just an umbrella term to end the round, the round should be ended ASAP. 30 seconds is quite a generous time in my opinion, considering it takes like 10 seconds to kill 3- 4 blues. I, personally, don't want to lower the time for death request because I think the red deserves one. Just not in the style this community currently allows.

It's an umbrella term for how the round ends. I know that's semantics but from what I'm getting you're suggesting that it is an umbrella term for the process of ending the round and therefore the "the round should be ended ASAP." The end result of death requests are ending the round, yes, but it also serves as a reward for the last RED and what not. When I say it is an umbrella term for round ending, I don't mean literally that it's focus is ending the round, I just mean it's an umbrella term for the later half of the round.

Not true. 80% of reds take up the whole 2 minutes to complete their death request. A minigame will not take that long. Besides, a minigame was just a suggestion. In my experience, most people will either just melee fight to the death or kill themselves from console/sweeper.

Hypothetically speaking though, if minigames became more commonplace for DRs (like, if this suggestion is implemented), then they may reveal themselves to take up just as much time. I mean, Obby, Deathrun, 9 square, etc. all can easily take up to two minutes.

 

[Olaves]

I understand all the arguments posted against changing death request.

Due to the mixed reactions, I would like to suggest a trial period for a week or so. Rather than endlessly arguing about what we think will happen, why don't we actually test our theories as well as see what sort of feedback we receive from the majority of players in the servers due to the change. The feedback may be completely negative (likely because it is a big change with no warning) or we may get some positive feedback and many players may even like the change. Afterwards, we can conclude and see if a change is necessary or not.

The changes I am proposing if we go ahead with a trial period are as follows:

• A death request is a request to die. "How would you like to die"
• The death request must include a chance of dying. (Melee fight/minigame/jumping into sweeper etc)

OR

• Death request is optional
• Warden decides if they would like to grant one or not

OR

• Time allowed for a death request is reduced to 1 minute

Although I push that we try out the first change, I believe any of these changes will provide a positive effect on the overall gameplay but there is no way of knowing for sure unless we test it out.

 

[Eight]

For: 5 (Olaves, Blizzard, TheMinecraftPoke, slither, and Infinity).

Against: 5 (Malfunction, Captain Weeb, Vladdleco, 1999alpha, and me).

Any additional opinions people want to offer? Votes seem very mixed.

 

[Stao]

I'm for a middle ground of reducing the time of DRs. 90 seconds to start. Then, if complaints still arise, reduce further to a minute.

 

[Stao]

Rules have been updated to reduce DRs to 90 seconds. Please make another thread for further suggestions. Closing.