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Declined Zombie mode feedback/suggestions

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NightyMoon

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Jul 23, 2018
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Hi, wanted to give a feedback of experience that had with zombie mode here and suggestions that could give.

From what experienced the matches are very short, unbalanced and mostly frustrating, there is always some unbeatable (mostly) survivor base or unwinnable (mostly) map for survivors, places accessible only to jetpack pyros stalling and slowing the game and eyelander demos/BFB scouts playing sonic and stalling the game aswell. From when played years ago on different server which doesn't exist anymore so this is not an advert, the server ran zombie mode but there insteed of infecting everyone in 1 hit it would take 2 hits for anyone, no matter demoman, heavy or scout (demoman had third chance if had shield equiped but getting hit was destroying the shield so it was only single time chance), when player was hit they were flashing green, if they were not hit for some time or they were healed by medic/dispenser (to make the process faster) they were regaining that 1 chance after a while, everyone was taking damage with hits + losing that 1 chance, the chance regenerated but the health not so if someone was in open without healthpacks or other sources of health but dodged all attacks to let the infection fade out, they would anyway eventualy die from just damage. Here damage doesn't matter, ppl get infected in 1 hit but sometimes it doesn't work properly and ppl that are not demoman can get hit and still not be infected, not only that, the demoman doesn't take double damage from zombies as the class info says. Anyway, what looking for is suggesting to bring most of the game rules that remember from there here and some own suggestions since the game changed in mechanics a little and some weapons works differently than before.



So, would like to see it here too, the infecting in 2 hits part, demos included. It would be combated by allowing scout have his guilotine, all the balls, drinks, that way, they can snipe any flying or running away ppl, they would also snipe ppl in bases making medics a more important role on survivor part as of right now, stacking heavies, demos, pyros and engis is the best tactic so far with endless defensive capabilities, who needs a medic to heal them if they gonna get infected in 1 hit and there is no mechanism that encourages seeking a medics help, vaccinator and quickfix are useless, stock is mediocre at best and kritzkrieg is the best so far but since games last 2-5 minutes max, there can be max 1-2 ubers used by medic and they have barely any impact unless the zombies are in base and needs clearing with kritz.

Lunchboxes for heavy zombies should be a thing too, why is not?, that's not like eating a sandvich gonna break the game.

Eyelander and BFB speed boosts shouldn't be a thing, they doesn't add anything, all they do is allow demos and scouts run arround the map possibly to the end of match and winning by doing nothing, there's not many big or dodgy maps to allow that but whenever one is played, it happens and not even a pack of charging demoknights will catch a BFB scout that have a brain on map such as for example the desert.

The other thing that would suggest be disabled is jetpack, yes, it allows to fly and attack those scouts, soldiers, engis and other survivor jetpack pyros hidding in almost unreachable places but if it happens and the only class that can reliably reach those places is jetpack pyro then there is a big issue, with addition of previously mentioned ranged scouts this issue would be ultimately resolved, the other reason why jetpack shouldn't be a thing is that, not only it have infinite uses here, that's also a free fast getaway and free way to reach those mentioned hard to reach places, everyone, soldier, demo, atomizer scout or wrangler engis, they all have to trade health to get there making them an easier pray, pyro loses nothing, he doesn't even lose ammo by jumping arround.

Airblast also is a thing here, don't remember how it was on the other server but it would be good as gone or it should consume all the pyros ammo, why?, bcs there are some places where 1 airblasting pyro can shut down an entire horde as long as they have a dispenser and a ledge to push zombies off, before JI the airblast was stunlocking but it didn't push so hard, right now airblast is atleast 2x stronger making having a pyro on some roof just a win condition.

Also survivor spy is broken, they can be seen even when disguised, not even a zombie spy is usefull, their only special ability is using teleporters which can be completly shut down by engi being smart and destroying the teleporter entrance once not needed but even if the spy teleporter, the spy doesn't infect on 1 hit, he deals 40 dmg, backstabbing included so before he even manages to butterknife that engi to death, he gonna have more holes than cheese (not sure about his taunt kill with knives, if it doesn't work, didn't check, it might be good to be enabled for sieging walled survivors as the taunts kill buildings in 1 hit and would allow for a tactical strike of zombies by bodyblocking the bullets from taunting spy and lettin him kill the wall).

Other thing are maps, played most of them in last few days, they literaly are all horrible, either favorizing survivors with unreachable roofs or tight corridors or zombies by small map, rooms and lack of places to hide, from experience found only 3 places where sentry gun could be placed to block entry, rest could be jumped on which caber demos would abuse and just infect entire room of survivors if their jump over + charge succeded, some of those places can be secured by dispenser as dispenser is higher but also can't be wrangled and dies to 1 caber explosion, so having 1 demo sacrifice themselves to allow those 10 zombies behind enter is just eh, by all means, not discouraging caber but it means walling without using wrangled sentry pointless as that's the only thing capable of surviving a caber, not sure even why sentry is replaced by mini-sentry. Definitely would suggest replacing maps with actual zombie maps that are not just camping roofs or long coridors (using hammer is realy not that hard, the maps mostly doesn't seem be though out for zombie mode and were just adjusted with plugins for this and no map changes at all), as the game is mostly frustrating for the zombie team, all survivors can lose is just being infected and also the lack of satisfaction that something worked as the maps either favour survivors and that's just rancho relaxing or favour zombies and that's just better to join undead than waste time of everyone and hide on top of trees or run arround.

A new thing that could encourage maps with better defensive positions which can be blocked by just sentry but without long tight corridors and also return of normal sentry would be fear meter, in gmod zombie mod (not sure how is now but years ago it was that way), zombies gained damage resistance based on how many were packed close, every zombie produced 2-3% on fear meter up to 50% and every 1% of fear meter meant 1% of damage reduction, it would encourage cooperation, striking the weaker survivor colonies first to gather undead forces and to think tacticaly to strike all together to give eachother buff and allow for atleast 1 zombie to get into that infested with 5 heavies shooting into doorway room. (by the way, if we are about heavies, natasha also should be restricted, when crouching, the knockback of any minigun is already enough to push any zombie out that is not a charging demoknight, having a natasha heavy on a team in a corridor base is almost as good as having airblast pyro on roofs.)

Lastly, the props on some maps, it realy shows that some maps were not checked before including them into map rotation, all props are undestructible meaning that on some maps ppl can just push props like vending machines into doorways, block it off by surrounding it with dispensers and whatever and done, rancho relaxo inside the room on survivor part and a dancing party outside by zombies, either just use hammer to remove those props, make them static props or perhaps keep them movable but make them able to die if they took too much damage so constant pushing it into doorway would weaken/break it and even then survivors would still have to defend their prop which otherwise would be destroyed by zombies.
 

Mifil

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From the description you've provided, I was sure you meant the Intox servers, the servers that are long dead. But I'm not sure.
From what experienced the matches are very short, unbalanced and mostly frustrating, there is always some unbeatable (mostly) survivor base or unwinnable (mostly) map for survivors, places accessible only to jetpack pyros stalling and slowing the game and eyelander demos/BFB scouts playing sonic and stalling the game aswell. From when played years ago on different server which doesn't exist anymore so this is not an advert, the server ran zombie mode but there insteed of infecting everyone in 1 hit it would take 2 hits for anyone, no matter demoman, heavy or scout (demoman had third chance if had shield equiped but getting hit was destroying the shield so it was only single time chance), when player was hit they were flashing green, if they were not hit for some time or they were healed by medic/dispenser (to make the process faster) they were regaining that 1 chance after a while, everyone was taking damage with hits + losing that 1 chance, the chance regenerated but the health not so if someone was in open without healthpacks or other sources of health but dodged all attacks to let the infection fade out, they would anyway eventualy die from just damage. Here damage doesn't matter, ppl get infected in 1 hit but sometimes it doesn't work properly and ppl that are not demoman can get hit and still not be infected, not only that, the demoman doesn't take double damage from zombies as the class info says. Anyway, what looking for is suggesting to bring most of the game rules that remember from there here and some own suggestions since the game changed in mechanics a little and some weapons works differently than before.

It really is dependable on the gameplay. There is a lack of range weapons that would infect players from distance. What you described here is the mechanic that I remember from Intox servers: the infection mechanic. However, as far as I remember, crit-charged demoknight actually was able to infect a player after one hit (with exception of Demoman with shield). What really needs to be done here, is as you mentioned, a better and clearer infection mechanic as well as ranged weapons able to infect players. I suggest, as it was on intox server, to have sandman balls be this weapon. Once ball hits enemy player, they are soaked in piss, and with the help of other scouts, you would be able to infect the player from faraway.
So, would like to see it here too, the infecting in 2 hits part, demos included. It would be combated by allowing scout have his guilotine, all the balls, drinks, that way, they can snipe any flying or running away ppl, they would also snipe ppl in bases making medics a more important role on survivor part as of right now, stacking heavies, demos, pyros and engis is the best tactic so far with endless defensive capabilities, who needs a medic to heal them if they gonna get infected in 1 hit and there is no mechanism that encourages seeking a medics help, vaccinator and quickfix are useless, stock is mediocre at best and kritzkrieg is the best so far but since games last 2-5 minutes max, there can be max 1-2 ubers used by medic and they have barely any impact unless the zombies are in base and needs clearing with kritz.
As far as I remember, medics were useful to get rid off the 1-hit effect faster. I agree wholefully with drinks, it would be useful to combat sentry nests (so that the sentries could focus on bonked scouts, rather than other players).

Also, about rounds being short. Again, I'm not sure, if you played on intox servers, but I remember that there were conditions under which the timer could be expanded. I believe it was +5 seconds with successful infection. But I agree, overall, the rounds are short. The 2 min rounds are here due to the time left on the map. I suggest adding something like that.

Lunchboxes for heavy zombies should be a thing too, why is not?, that's not like eating a sandvich gonna break the game.
I agree, but then again, you have amputator medics.

Eyelander and BFB speed boosts shouldn't be a thing, they doesn't add anything, all they do is allow demos and scouts run arround the map possibly to the end of match and winning by doing nothing, there's not many big or dodgy maps to allow that but whenever one is played, it happens and not even a pack of charging demoknights will catch a BFB scout that have a brain on map such as for example the desert.
If you know, how to combat them, it's isn't really a problem currently. On Intox servers, melee weapons would always one-hit zombies and you had an instances of one good demoknight winning the whole round. It's not that bad, currently. It's time-wasting, yeah, but the fault here is really due to rounds being shorter.

The other thing that would suggest be disabled is jetpack, yes, it allows to fly and attack those scouts, soldiers, engis and other survivor jetpack pyros hidding in almost unreachable places but if it happens and the only class that can reliably reach those places is jetpack pyro then there is a big issue, with addition of previously mentioned ranged scouts this issue would be ultimately resolved, the other reason why jetpack shouldn't be a thing is that, not only it have infinite uses here, that's also a free fast getaway and free way to reach those mentioned hard to reach places, everyone, soldier, demo, atomizer scout or wrangler engis, they all have to trade health to get there making them an easier pray, pyro loses nothing, he doesn't even lose ammo by jumping arround.
I agree wholefully. Add that Sandman mechanic and you have a new, better way of dealing with those people that afk in unreachable places.

Also survivor spy is broken, they can be seen even when disguised, not even a zombie spy is usefull, their only special ability is using teleporters which can be completly shut down by engi being smart and destroying the teleporter entrance once not needed but even if the spy teleporter, the spy doesn't infect on 1 hit, he deals 40 dmg, backstabbing included so before he even manages to butterknife that engi to death, he gonna have more holes than cheese (not sure about his taunt kill with knives, if it doesn't work, didn't check, it might be good to be enabled for sieging walled survivors as the taunts kill buildings in 1 hit and would allow for a tactical strike of zombies by bodyblocking the bullets from taunting spy and lettin him kill the wall).
Yes, it's also a thing I was really dissapointed in. A good spy, by getting through a teleport, could take out the whole nest, if done right (with a bit of luck). Spies must be able to backstab, currently, zombie spies are useless. There is no reason to go zombie spy. But if spy gains his ability to backstab back, then it would be another viable tactic to take out the human team.

Other thing are maps, played most of them in last few days, they literaly are all horrible, either favorizing survivors with unreachable roofs or tight corridors or zombies by small map, rooms and lack of places to hide, from experience found only 3 places where sentry gun could be placed to block entry, rest could be jumped on which caber demos would abuse and just infect entire room of survivors if their jump over + charge succeded, some of those places can be secured by dispenser as dispenser is higher but also can't be wrangled and dies to 1 caber explosion, so having 1 demo sacrifice themselves to allow those 10 zombies behind enter is just eh, by all means, not discouraging caber but it means walling without using wrangled sentry pointless as that's the only thing capable of surviving a caber, not sure even why sentry is replaced by mini-sentry. Definitely would suggest replacing maps with actual zombie maps that are not just camping roofs or long coridors (using hammer is realy not that hard, the maps mostly doesn't seem be though out for zombie mode and were just adjusted with plugins for this and no map changes at all), as the game is mostly frustrating for the zombie team, all survivors can lose is just being infected and also the lack of satisfaction that something worked as the maps either favour survivors and that's just rancho relaxing or favour zombies and that's just better to join undead than waste time of everyone and hide on top of trees or run arround.
Would be great if you could give the names of proposed maps. I'm honestly neutral, leaning towards keeping those maps in, but really only due to nostalgia I had on Intox servers. I love those maps, but adding additional maps would do no harm. So yeah, I suggest you give us some names, so we could judge those maps.
A new thing that could encourage maps with better defensive positions which can be blocked by just sentry but without long tight corridors and also return of normal sentry would be fear meter, in gmod zombie mod (not sure how is now but years ago it was that way), zombies gained damage resistance based on how many were packed close, every zombie produced 2-3% on fear meter up to 50% and every 1% of fear meter meant 1% of damage reduction, it would encourage cooperation, striking the weaker survivor colonies first to gather undead forces and to think tacticaly to strike all together to give eachother buff and allow for atleast 1 zombie to get into that infested with 5 heavies shooting into doorway room. (by the way, if we are about heavies, natasha also should be restricted, when crouching, the knockback of any minigun is already enough to push any zombie out that is not a charging demoknight, having a natasha heavy on a team in a corridor base is almost as good as having airblast pyro on roofs.)
Interesting mechanic. I have no experience with it, but from the description, I will say it's worth implementing and experimenting on.
Also, with natasha, I agree with it too. But again, everything would be so much easier, if we could get a ranged weapon able to infect players from far-away.
Airblast also is a thing here, don't remember how it was on the other server but it would be good as gone or it should consume all the pyros ammo, why?, bcs there are some places where 1 airblasting pyro can shut down an entire horde as long as they have a dispenser and a ledge to push zombies off, before JI the airblast was stunlocking but it didn't push so hard, right now airblast is atleast 2x stronger making having a pyro on some roof just a win condition.
I believe, on Intox, airblast existed, but it has much bigger cooldown and consumed I think like 75 ammo. I would suggest implementing that, as a last resort trick against the zombies, and not a spam ability.

Lastly, the props on some maps, it realy shows that some maps were not checked before including them into map rotation, all props are undestructible meaning that on some maps ppl can just push props like vending machines into doorways, block it off by surrounding it with dispensers and whatever and done, rancho relaxo inside the room on survivor part and a dancing party outside by zombies, either just use hammer to remove those props, make them static props or perhaps keep them movable but make them able to die if they took too much damage so constant pushing it into doorway would weaken/break it and even then survivors would still have to defend their prop which otherwise would be destroyed by zombies.
I created a post about it in suggestions. The props should be removed in the next update.

Also, I would like to add my personal changes to the gamemode itself.
-Crossbow and Bow shots always crit.
-Melee one-hit kills zombie.
-The mentioned Sandman mechanic.
-The +5sec to timer after each successful infection.
-Class limit for Engineer (in most cases there are 7 engineers per round, a few of them can't build sentries due to sentry limit, making them more useless than other engies).
-The last player gets a boost in speed and damage (given that the infection mechanic will be implemented, that wouldn't be a problem for zombies).
 
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NightyMoon

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Tbh not sure the name of the server, but it was a german server and the "Intox" name doesn't sound the bell, but it was long ago, like 2 years or something arround when last played. Also yes, the meele killing in 1 hit, don't remember if they were just crited or if they literaly just one-shoted but remember it being a thing.

As for the maps, there are 3 maps that remember from that german server that are here, lumberyard, (don't remember the map name, it have those vending machines and sofas all over the place, it have underground with multiple small rooms and a building in small arena in overworld, there are like 3 or 4 versions of that single map on server for some reason, they differ in places like special zombie spawn while others have not or different layout of that building in overworld, there is even 1 version where there is a big container which can be blocked with single mini sentry and is basicaly a game over for zombies [personaly checked that place, zombies just danced on top of that container from boredom as multiple heavies/pyros shooting were too much, ranged scouts would fix that tho, they propably would fix most of overpowered places if they could launch things at survivors], this map mostly tho doesn't have that container, it have a small shed with a big hole not suited at all to defend, in version that played on the german server tho there was a different shed which had normal door insteed of broken corner and was possible to solo the onslaught of zombies, well, untill a spy came and taunted the sentry/dispenser), (the third map that don't remember the name of is, well, hard to describe, that's a building with multiple rooms, the most noticable thing being the ledge placed high next to north from zombie spawn wall which had a truck under it and think 3 trees on left, there are 2 ramps connecting it to the building, remember it being a fun sniping place where there was skill involved to dodge scouts and the snipe them back, when sandman still stuned, conga could be used to escape guilotine, anyway, that's most noticable thing that can describe in this third map which connects both servers)

For the maps that think are bad and remember names are: blood_gulch (completly open, making a base is impossible and is also a sniper heaven which btw being a main but don't like unfair advantages). (from files in maps noticed there are 2 gulch maps, not sure which one is the bad one, or maybe both, the one with green teleporters)
Desert (another very open sniper heaven without place to build a base, is so open that even a bunch of sentries with amplifier will keep any charging demos or flying pyros at bay).
Degroot_keep, it have barely any defensive capabilities and is a very small map, one of worst and most boring medieval maps turned into zombie... without any adjustments, just sky is darker, there are 2 small doorways which can be blocked fully only by a dispenser, not sentry, one on left from gate and one on the right control point when going out of blue spawn, they suck, the other defensive position is spawn itself but that's easly shut down by any atomizer scout, surivors on those ledges can literaly be smacked from bellow by meele scouts, not to mention what jetpack pyros and caber demos do to them, other defensive place is top of the castle with placing walls on all the stais and doorways leading up and the last defensive point being that tiny place in a back corner with wooden barriers that get just sniped by flying pyros, still, that's the best hidding spot so far even if almost unwinnable, matches usualy end with jetpack pyros finishing off those stalling players hidding on unrechable places.
Egypt, played there only 2 times thankfuly but the spot there is completly unreachable without using jetpack.
Harbour, there is only 1 real defensive place that can imagine which is up the ramp on truck then on roof, the roof however have a hole but again, only jetpack pyros can get thro that hole or at all there as charging demos have a hard time getting thro the ramp if there's like 5 heavies with amplifier bombarding it, there is also another place that can be jumped on to get on the roof but that's just the harder way than the ramp and only works if survivors and not careful.
Helmsdeep is another sniper heaven map, the map usualy goes that way: snipers snipe on top of castle, some rogue spy or demo or pyro gets thro one of gates, goes up the stairs and smack the snipers (not guaranteed, sometimes players on zombie team are just not smart enough for that, ppl realy should abuse the greed for kills of survivors and wait in shadows so the survivors come by themselves), anyway, if the snipers were taken out + their bodyguards, there was usualy a base where the main gate is, the door way is just so disgusting that barely can be done there and with how huge the map is, getting there as a tanky heavy or caber demo takes ages, as easly as dying is, dying to try and breach that wall there is almost a loss already for zombies, rarely seen that place being taken out, such unbeatable places usualy end only when engi have to repair their wall and at the same time some caber demo decided to charge and catched the engi with explosion or they just left out for whatever stupid reason some players leave outside the wall. Anyway, whenever the base formed there, it was not breached or was breached, there is last stage on this map, stalling ppl, ppl who run arround just to win by doing nothing, ppl who jump on top of trees or other ledges or chandeliers where only atomizer scouts or even only jetpack pyros can get and also the ppl who go onto that small rock ledge on the right side of the map with 1 tree where usualy charging demos dance doing nothing and zombie charging demos have to get up there.
Mannworks is also bad, there are 2 ways, either right from survivor spawn, open base, if there is not enough dps, anyone zombie enter and the other place is spawn itself which personaly chosen, doors however need 2 buildings to block making it a rather poor defensive place if there is no previously mentioned open base protecting it with amplifier heavies.
The 3 that mentioned which connected the servers, the lumberyard is not fun either, for zombies, there is a corner with boxes which have to be jumped on where bunch of heavies and pyros have enough dps to melt anyone who tries instantly, seem that place happen to fail but that's mostly bcs of survivor mistake, a caber demo can hide behind boxes as long as survivor doesn't stand on top of them, but standing up and trying get in is a death sentence, on the other server the lasers in doors were actualy instakilling anyone so the only way was thro those breakable doors, survivors mostly were hidding under the point or stairs and the survivors were actualy red so the sentry didn't hurt them but insteed helped. The second map was fine as long as no one used props to block doors, there however the defensive place was the room with few barrels inside where there was a doorway in aswell a small vent, in here, defensive places are the tiny ones without windows, blocked by vending machines and 5 heavies + 2 demos spamming in.
As said before, don't like most maps on the server but don't remember names of all of them so can't describe their problems that seeing, mostly the problems are lack of defensive position (map is open or doorways are too big), too small maps, maps that were taken for whatever reason from other gamemodes (like for example degroot keep), maps that have bunch of annoying roofs which can't be sieged without survivor mistake or even places where engies get with teleporters, then teleport entire team and that's just plain frustrating bcs only jetpack pyros can get in there and lastly, lack of variation in defensive places, usualy maps have 1-2 best places or rather, 1-2 only places to defend and the other 90% of the map could basicaly not exist at that point.


For map suggestions, well, from research that did on gamebanana zombie maps found few maps that were actualy on the server that played before and which could recommend (or not, will describe them as best as can but they might be upgraded/changed from what know and only remember them by the screenshots there). Before the suggestions will mention that the other server had class restrictions, there was no caber demos, the main sieging units there were heavies with fists of steel and taunting spies, scouts were for sniping roamers, stalling players who hide in unreachable places and picking off ppl behind the walls, heavies also could use their taunt kills to mostly snipe engis hidding behind a dispenser and wrenching it or to kill ppl who were too hard to pick off by scouts, like for example, they had medics aid to cure infection faster or they were hidding behind allies to avoid second hit and regaining their extra chance. Survivors also had class restrictions which don't realy remember. As such, the maps that mentioning were balanced arround those restrictions and can't be sure how it will look like with homewrecker pyros, caber demos and other stuff running arround. Also the server as right now remember had a similar fear mechanic as mentioned in main post but insteed of resistances, zombies gained crit chance, since damage actualy did mean something there, the crits were a big advantage to pile up together, also random crits had a meaning, while here random crits or crits at all matter only when fighting human demos.

This one from what remember had multiple defensive positions, mostly containers or pipes, 2 or 3 were inside a building, zombies here usualy used scouts to snipe the survivors and for hard places, heavy taunt kill was used, there were a few professional heavy taunt killers that sniped ppl from anywhere, it might sound stupid as a possible mechanic but it allowed to kill ppl who were too hard even for scouts to get (like for example a doorway or hole that was so small, balls would not get thro, or just crouch behind dispenser and hide, heavies would then find a tiny bit of engi hitbox pointing out and try and snipe that)
https://gamebanana.com/maps/128573

This one sucked, it was completly unfun and the only way for zombies was having some spy getting past or scouts sniping ppl.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/155139

This one was fun, the main defensive position was this shed in the screenshot, the gate on the side was opened by a button, mostly opened by some trolls or newbies letting zombies in, there were also few other buildings on that map and also a lake, remember the map to be a fun place for battle medicing, there quickfix was not useless so running with crossbow/ubersaw was actualy a good strategy, something like demoknight here but shifting towards more survivability than damage. Anyway, the map, not realy sure how the shed worked completly, the window was breakable, the door not sure, it might be an immortal door that was opened/closed by E which propably was frustrating for zombies so if this map would be chosen and the door realy was immortal it might be good to make the door destroyable. The second place that remember there being a good defensive place was the attic in the main center building to which ladder was leading and a window on the back so the scouts could get in from the roof or just snipe ppl.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/112088

This one was a fun map, it have those tiny houses which are fully defendable except the left highest one, don't remember, survivors would usualy camp the center one or the right one with the right one being full of snipers but it was not a sniper heaven as zombies could go up, somehow, forgot how the map worked where was a cave system which led to a bridge which led to another cave behind the building for an ambush attack, the cave and bridge also were defendable allowing survivors to go and defend almost in any place on the map with the best being either bridge or the right house.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/132937

This map was open, it was kinda annoying as zombies had to go up the ramps to get to survivors but also survivors could only defend on those ramps, the map is mediocre at best, considering the ranged scouts would be implemented and could be viable only if some hammer adjustments were added. (For some reason this map have screenshots of the other tower defense maps, perhaps this map is like dustbowl etc in which case only this 3rd part of the map is in any way managable, the other 2 were just horrible for the zombie team.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/156303

This map doesn't exist it seems but from the thumbnail and from the name think remember what map it was, it had a church where door was possible to defend, then retreat on stais and them on top of church where usualy snipers were living having fun as owls, the other 2 places to defend where polie station where there was the main door to defend and then 2 or 3 rooms, don't remember whih could be chosen aswell an attic which can some kind of box castle where sentry could be placed, not sure if dispenser did fit. The other place was underground accessed by toilet, not sure if there was second way in, but it was also another way to get to police station as if defenses were broken in the underground, zombies could get into one of rooms in police station. The map was fun, if it would be possible to find it again and ressurect here, it would be nice.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/151071

Not sure if this was the map that remember but it was medium size mannor where were many many rooms with defendable corridors or doorways, one of main places being a doorway in front of main stairs, if breached, there was second room behind it connected, then the corridor, then last room.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/158257

This map was mediocre at best but it still was there, there were atleast 2 positions to defend, one being a 2 way room that connects corridor and stairs down and the other being underground under stairs, it was actualy fun and engaging to try and hold those doors tho the map itself was though for killing floor, not for tf2 so it doesn't have many places to defend effectively.
https://gamebanana.com/maps/179134


There were many other maps that could not find on gamebanana nor on workshop, some of them being a cool maps to defend, other being escape maps where survivors do tasks (such as stealing zombies intel before time runs out) or just escape with few waiting points where survivors make temporary bases to defend untill the door opens, bridge lowers etc and the main goal was to reach the end of map which was giving victory to survivors, one that remember had an arena at the end where survivors had to survive for like half minute, the escape maps were the hardest to do as zombies would chase and catch the slower ppl that couldn't do the parkour or puzzles fast enough but they were highly engaging and fun to do.
 
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NightyMoon

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Jul 23, 2018
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Other suggestions that could give is making other classes usefull as zombies, such as sniper could throw jarate as some kind of infection bomb, if we would take the suggestion from Mifil about piss being a stage 1 infection status this could potentialy give snipers ability to support their team even tho they are rather squishy and have no special weapons other than bushwacka.

Other being engineers could build a teleport exit which could be somehow by plugins toggled by zombies to spawn on or just simple entrance-exit way, that way, traveling long or labirynth-like maps would be faster insteed of spending 20-60 seconds every death (examples are Helm's Deep, Desert and other big maps or maps with huge buildings and many rooms), the other thing zombie engis could do is build a dispenser, maybe.

Soldiers perhaps could have their banners on spawn already charged so they could support team mainly with damage reduction of battalions backup, otherwise soldier is second slowest class to pick which doesn't have fists of steel like heavy and have 1/3 less health than him, making him a rather poor pick other than trying to grenade a wall.

Medic have right now an amputator but noticed that equiping ubersaw turns it into an amputator, medic loses by it a decent sieging tool which is his taunt, also the uber gain could perhaps be somehow coded to be some of an adventage for zombie medic, even tho chances to gain an uber as zombie are rather slim, that's just a suggestion.

If any of that would not be accepted, would suggest restricting those classes (medic excluded) as they are rather weak compared to other classes zombie player could pick and can potentialy hinder the horde where in their place we could have insteed a FoS heavy, amputator medic or caber demo.


The other thing that might be questionable but still suggesting is restricting demospam, not talking about the pills (which btw, crited pills are disgusting) but the stickies, having a good engi walling with wrangled sentry and a demo or few behind spamming stickies is just so good, heavy dishes out good dps and is extremely annoying for zombie team bcs knockback and that 540 averge dps, but he can't pierce enemies with his bullets, stickies allow to just detonate all those incoming 10 zombies instantly with only delay being how fast that demo gonna press RMB while heavy will need time to take down those enemies even with crits. Stickies are particularly very strong and annoying in places where caber demos can't charge past them bcs for example stickies are on the stairs/ramps which change direction 1 or 2 times leading him to charge into first or second wall (unless that caber demo have no bones in hand and will somehow rotate with tide turner all the way up or plays with controller if that's possible). Perhaps tho the stickis would be balanced if the damage reduction from previous fear meter suggestion would be added or the banners for soldiers which would lead to zombies being much tankier.
 

NightyMoon

Member
Jul 23, 2018
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Sad that can't edit the post above since this minor addition to this thread would be best to just fit to the above. What wanted to change is that actualy, think stickies are not as cancerous as any minigun in the game, simply the knockback + no reload + hitscan + amplifier makes it so infuirating to play against, perhaps just don't give heavy to survivors, they have pyro to spam door anyway and snipers should take care of long-mid range targets, not 5 brass beast heavies spamming the zombie spawn, the other server didn't have heavy bcs he was restricted to zombie team, propably bcs of this. Other than poor maps and props on some of them this is the only thing that triggers us.
 

Eight

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Jul 15, 2017
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Bumping, want to sort out this suggestion.

Any votes for/against the arguments provided? If no great support for anything here, will close within 48 hours.
 
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