Resolved Problem with props on map zom_panic_FIXV2_IG

[Mifil]

There is rather a big problem with props on map zom_panic_FIXV2_IG on ZombieMod 2.0 servers. I'll present screenshots.

(The RED players are stuck in the vending machine.)

Props are blocked in place with engineer's buildings (mini-sentry gun behind a standing vending machine and dispenser behind the laying one.)

As seen on these screenshots, movable props (such as vending machines and sofas) are used as an obstacle that block the entrance completely. It wouldn't be a problem, if these were easily moveable (and removable). It also doesn't help that you can block those props with engineer's buildings. In addition, you can easily get stuck in them. I noticed few interesting things about them:

1. You can barely move them with hitscan weapons, projectile weapons seem to do nothing to them. In order to move them, using melee weapons are the way to go.
2. Any player can get stuck in them, when the other person pushes the prop into the position the player is located in. Sometimes you can free yourself from them by hitting those props with melee weapons in order to move them from yourself, but it's no use, when the prop is either blocked by a building or another prop.
3. Props don't collide with each other.

There had been numerous rounds on this map, where the BLU team had won with this bug.

Proposed sollutions: Either remove this map from map rotation (that would be the best solution, as there is another version of this map without those props in map rotation) or add a specific rule forbidding using props to block entrances.

 

[Suomimies55]

https://wonderland.tf/threads/zombi...y-places-p-s-help-me-plz.331/page-2#post-7675 There's already a thread for the zm map stuff.

And yes, physic_props don't belong in tf2.

 

[Mifil]

I see. This thread might had better been created in reports subforum.

Anyways, zom_panic is not the only map that has props. ZM_MountainHome also features them. Telling you that, I personally believe some rule should be made to make prop usage forbidden.

 

[Suomimies55]

I see. This thread might had better been created in reports subforum.

Anyways, zom_panic is not the only map that has props. ZM_MountainHome also features them. Telling you that, I personally believe some rule should be made to make prop usage forbidden.

It's much better to remove them completely from the maps. Makes everyones life much easier.

 

[Xypher]

Removing props is possible without decompiling & editing the map.
Could you create a list of maps which contain props that could be used to completely block the path?

 

[Mifil]

Removing props is possible without decompiling & editing the map.
Could you create a list of maps which contain props that could be used to completely block the path?

For now, I've found those two maps (that are actually played) that have props in it.
-zom_panic_FIXV2_IG
-ZM_MountainHome

 

[Agilitas]

Hello, i have been playing wonderland zombie servers for like 1.6 years and i would like to give my 2 cents on the matter of this post:

First of all it is true that hitting one of the 2 props on this map which in this case is vending machine, it is somewhat difficult to move it, especially if there are more than couple of players with you hitting it. However it is possible to move it faster if you have an item that is called ''equalizer'' on soldier, for some reason this weapon moves this prop better on this map. Sofa which is the second prop is much easier to move around even as zombie. The problem that i see is the fact that when multiple people try to hit, they somehow hit each other rather than the prop, if there would be an way to make zombies hit the prop instead the other zombies next to you, it would solve this matter.

Secondly what comes to the ''being stuck inside the prop'' again this case it is vending machine, i personally dont see why it would be considered as something that needed to be changed, even tho it's somewhat annoying. Person stuck to a prob can try to move it by shooting it or hitting it, however in OP:s scenario player can always suecide them self if they feel like it, or if you are inside the prob you can always hit the machine to the opposite side to make it move there rather than hitting it to the direction where these dispensers are located.
Also argument of blocking the prop with dispenser on the otherside making it impossible to move the prob anywere is rather dull, considering the player who blocked the prob needs to move it to an exact position where it cannot be moved AT ALL. I have only seen this happen on this specific map only TWICE, compared to other 175 rounds i have played this map.

Thirdly im not sure what you meant by the word ''collide'' thanks to my lack of understanding english, but if the statement was about blockin a prob that is vending machine with an sofa then the sofa will move with the machine backwards if there is an zombie hitting the machine. However this wont necessarily happen if there is an dispenser or sentry blocking the sofa and the machine, but from what i have seen both tend to move usually even if little.


Lastly i want to say that i tend to have couple of months brake from this mod here and there, since it will sometimes get boring for me sometimes, however i have seen that some maps have received some unusual treatment of fixes for certain ''spots'' on those maps making such maps easier for either side. I personally dont like this because i feel like if the ''balance'' of this mod in some maps are towards other side more than the other making, say zombies win more often than the humans, a good example of this is map called: ZOM_RAGE ,people dont want to play that map anymore becouse its not fun to play. Sure you could say that about this map where humans tend to win more but keep in mind that people who usually ''fail'' in some spots on this specific map its either becouse they dont know what to do or are simple enough inexperienced players and they are trying to brake in to this specific spot (which in my opinion is rather easy compared to other spots on this map).
So should this map be removed from the zom map pool of wonderland zombie mod? I dont think it should be, the map is rather difficult at times especially for new players, but i dont think it should be shot down in a instant, rather CAREFULLY tweaked here and there making sure that the ''fun'' aspect and good amount of challenge stays with in its borders. It has an unique aspect to it which makes it my favorite map of the bunch, which is why im here defending it and all those that have fun with it, even those that dont. Since for some reason, they still play it rather than leaving the server.

 

[Mifil]

Hello, i have been playing wonderland zombie servers for like 1.6 years and i would like to give my 2 cents on the matter of this post:

First of all it is true that hitting one of the 2 props on this map which in this case is vending machine, it is somewhat difficult to move it, especially if there are more than couple of players with you hitting it. However it is possible to move it faster if you have an item that is called ''equalizer'' on soldier, for some reason this weapon moves this prop better on this map. Sofa which is the second prop is much easier to move around even as zombie. The problem that i see is the fact that when multiple people try to hit, they somehow hit each other rather than the prop, if there would be an way to make zombies hit the prop instead the other zombies next to you, it would solve this matter.

I'm afraid that's not fixable without turning on player collision.

Secondly what comes to the ''being stuck inside the prop'' again this case it is vending machine, i personally dont see why it would be considered as something that needed to be changed, even tho it's somewhat annoying.

It should be changed as you can easily be stuck in the prop, making you unable to move.

Person stuck to a prob can try to move it by shooting it or hitting it, however in OP:s scenario player can always suecide them self if they feel like it, or if you are inside the prob you can always hit the machine to the opposite side to make it move there rather than hitting it to the direction where these dispensers are located.

The problem is if it's a BLU player that is stuck. Killing yourself would force you to RED team. A prop can be moved, yes, but it's not possible, when the players purposely block the entrance, so that those props can't be moved from the other side.

Also argument of blocking the prop with dispenser on the otherside making it impossible to move the prob anywere is rather dull, considering the player who blocked the prob needs to move it to an exact position where it cannot be moved AT ALL. I have only seen this happen on this specific map only TWICE, compared to other 175 rounds i have played this map.

You've only seen it twice, but I have seen it being done well over ten times. Maybe you just don't notice it. Also, what do you mean? You can move the vending machine to the entrance, place a dispenser behind it and the said vending machine can't be moved. Dispenser blocks the prop, not positioning of it.

Thirdly im not sure what you meant by the word ''collide'' thanks to my lack of understanding english, but if the statement was about blockin a prob that is vending machine with an sofa then the sofa will move with the machine backwards if there is an zombie hitting the machine. However this wont necessarily happen if there is an dispenser or sentry blocking the sofa and the machine, but from what i have seen both tend to move usually even if little.

No, no such argument was made. I just noted that props don't collide with each other (you can't have for example sofa inside a vending machine).

Lastly i want to say that i tend to have couple of months brake from this mod here and there, since it will sometimes get boring for me sometimes, however i have seen that some maps have received some unusual treatment of fixes for certain ''spots'' on those maps making such maps easier for either side. I personally dont like this because i feel like if the ''balance'' of this mod in some maps are towards other side more than the other making, say zombies win more often than the humans, a good example of this is map called: ZOM_RAGE ,people dont want to play that map anymore becouse its not fun to play. Sure you could say that about this map where humans tend to win more but keep in mind that people who usually ''fail'' in some spots on this specific map its either becouse they dont know what to do or are simple enough inexperienced players and they are trying to brake in to this specific spot (which in my opinion is rather easy compared to other spots on this map).

I see the point. However, I can't agree. Prop_Dynamic works horribly in tf2, it works incredibly wonky on the maps. They are basically used as additional dispernsers (as a means of an obstacle), the problem is those are not destroyable.

So should this map be removed from the zom map pool of wonderland zombie mod?

No, just the props. Even then, we have another map with nearly exact layout.

I dont think it should be, the map is rather difficult at times especially for new players, but i dont think it should be shot down in a instant, rather CAREFULLY tweaked here and there making sure that the ''fun'' aspect and good amount of challenge stays with in its borders. It has an unique aspect to it which makes it my favorite map of the bunch, which is why im here defending it and all those that have fun with it, even those that dont.

Well, fun has it's own meaning for each person. I don't have fun as zombie, when one player bunkers himself with a vending machine in tiny room, puts dispenser behind it so that it's unmoveable and can just go idle because you can't get in (in some cases, Solder's kamikaze taunt destroys the dispenser, but it depends, how far the said dispenser is).

Since for some reason, they still play it rather than leaving the server.

"If you don't enjoy something, then don't do it". This argument rolls all over the internet and since then it just disables any room for improvement. Because why for example fix the skybox exploit on the map, when you can just leave it and the problem is gone? I don't enjoy that thinking.

 

[Mifil]

I also would like to disprove that zom_rage is not played. I just nominated zom_rage to see, if it will be picked. It was picked. What does it prove? People pick whatever map is on the first position.