Resolved Appeal denied for wrong reasons

[Noob]

On August 23, I was banned for suspicion of aimbotting, and made an appeal on here the same day. I waited 23 days for my ban appeal to be responded to. The response was:

"Looks like an alternate account, plus you've got bans on different communities for cheating.

Appeal denied."

No room for responses or arguments, the thread was closed. Firstly, I've tried searching this forum for a list of rules, and the ones that I found didn't have any mention of alternate accounts being forbidden. Maybe the admin pointed this out in a way that meant, "this is my proof that you're probably aimbotting," and not because it was against the rules. This should not be proof of any kind; I know a few people myself that use alt accounts for a variety of reasons that don't include cheating. I could name 3 or 4 different reasons I have alts, but the first thing that drove me to make alts was to fill my accounts all in the top 5 on a server's gameme leaderboard.
The bans on different communities are because of this exact situation: suspicion of aimbotting. Those bans are done manually by the admins, not by a system that detects any kind of cheats. Most of the communities I've been banned from are communities I have been unbanned from, and others are communities like Gmod Dark RP servers that I never take seriously. If you look real close at those bans, (I'm assuming) those bans are from 100% crit servers, which are the only servers I play on because they're point-and-clicks. This is the first server I've been banned from that isn't 100% crits.
There are a lot of ban appeals like mine. People are banned for "aimbotting," via admin's understandable misjudgment, and they are unbanned by admins that know what they're doing. Here are a few examples:

https://wonderland.tf/threads/banned-for-aimbot.2730/
"Given the lack of evidence for this ban, along with further investigating I've done, I don't believe your guilt can be solidly proven."

https://wonderland.tf/threads/unban-from-trade-server-for-aimbotting-perm.3723/
"After looking into the ban, I've concluded your guilt could not be proven. Given this and the fact that you've been cleared of cheating on multiple previous occasions, I will unban you."

This Eight guy is a pro! There is a lack of evidence that I'm aimbotting, and, given the fact that I've been cleared of cheating on multiple previous occasions, why was I banned?

 

[RulerOfTheFae]

(Since this isn't an actual "Appeal" I am technically allowed to respond)
During gameplay every about 15 minutes chat automatically says "Using alternate accounts to avoid bans is strictly prohibited"
Cheating is also punishable by a permanent IP ban with no chance of appeal. So they were really doing their job properly by denying it.

 

[Xypher]

You have ~3 alternate accounts.

Bans listed under STEAM_0:0:6910559:

https://www.i960.org/sourcebans/index.php/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0:0:6910559&Submit
http://www.vigilantegamers.net/bans/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0:0:6910559&Submit
http://tf2swapshop.com/sourcebans/i...arch=STEAM_0:0:6910559&advType=steamid&Submit

Bans listed under STEAM_0:1:421109304:

https://i960.org/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=STEAM_0:1:421109304&advType=steamid&Submit (Manual Ban)

Bans listed under STEAM_0:0:210201801:

http://tf2swapshop.com/sourcebans/i...advSearch=STEAM_0:0:210201801&advType=steamid
http://www.vigilantegamers.net/bans...einactive=true&searchText=STEAM_0:0:210201801

The alternate accounts listed above have connected onto our servers with the same IP address as your account.
This ban is valid and will not be removed.

 

[Noob]

(Since this isn't an actual "Appeal" I am technically allowed to respond)
During gameplay every about 15 minutes chat automatically says "Using alternate accounts to avoid bans is strictly prohibited"
Cheating is also punishable by a permanent IP ban with no chance of appeal. So they were really doing their job properly by denying it.

I wasn't using an alternate account to avoid a ban, so I shouldn't have been banned for that. I was never banned from the server in the first place, before "Noob" was banned. I just happened to be on a different account. "Cheating" is punishable by permanent IP ban. Sure! By all means, ban the cheaters. But there have been multiple times, if you've read my original post, where a person was banned for aimbotting, and they were unbanned because they weren't actually cheating. They DO have a chance for appeal. The admins aren't doing a very good job, I have to disagree.

 

[RulerOfTheFae]

"I found didn't have any mention of alternate accounts being forbidden."
That kind of implies that you did use an alternate account, and you think it was wrong that it was disallowed. Also you should read what xypher (the owner of the community) said, the IP that you use has 3 different accounts all of which banned here for cheating, and others that do get accepted back in are allowed because the admins feel their apologies are sincere and they actually won't do it again. You have 3 banned accounts here so even if you gave a truly sincere and believable apology, the fact that you have been banned 3 times for cheating makes it doubtful you wouldn't do it again.

 

[Noob]

You have ~3 alternate accounts.







The alternate accounts listed above have connected onto our servers with the same IP address as your account.
This ban is valid and will not be removed.

Yes, as my original post said, I have 5 accounts on the leaderboard on the VigilanteGamers server. If you're going to enforce a rule, make sure people know to follow it, as it can't be found anywhere in a "rules" post.

If what the other guy said is true: During gameplay every about 15 minutes chat automatically says "Using alternate accounts to avoid bans is strictly prohibited," is that really enough to make others aware of this rule? It almost seems hidden. Clearly I didn't know about it, because some people don't read the chat, or the chat is too fast, or both. If all admins are this stubborn, I could take the easy way out and use a different Steam account along with a VPN to access the server. I have yet to see why the ban is valid and will not be removed.

 

[RulerOfTheFae]

You're harming yourself more than helping. This is honestly stupid but here we go.
1. Saying "I'll just break the rules again" doesn't help
2. It should be obvious that if you break the rules and get punished you're expected to actually follow that punishment or else it wouldn't mean anything.
3. Whatever having 5 accounts on VigilanteGamers means, it isn't enough to appeal your bans here.
4. Blaming the admins for being "stubborn" rather than admitting you fucked up, once again, won't help your case.

 

[Eight]

Using alts isn't against the rules, unless you are avoiding punishments. However it's fairly logical that you shouldn't do this in the first place, in fact threatening to avoid via an alt/VPN will only incline us more to keep the ban in place.

@RulerOfTheFae He is claiming he isn't cheating in the first place, the whole argument isn't over if he can be unbanned for cheating.

The bans on the other communities seem questionable (for the most part), one is a vote ban and a lot of them are removed. However, I think you should provide an explanation for them at least, it's not like any user will have multiple bans on different communities for cheating across multiple alternate accounts, this all raises great suspicion to me.

 

[Noob]

"I found didn't have any mention of alternate accounts being forbidden."
That kind of implies that you did use an alternate account, and you think it was wrong that it was disallowed. Also you should read what xypher (the owner of the community) said, the IP that you use has 3 different accounts all of which banned here for cheating, and others that do get accepted back in are allowed because the admins feel their apologies are sincere and they actually won't do it again. You have 3 banned accounts here so even if you gave a truly sincere and believable apology, the fact that you have been banned 3 times for cheating makes it doubtful you wouldn't do it again.

Oh no. Have you been reading any of my posts? The situation is, I used an alternate account and was banned for aimbotting, not for using the alternate account. Of course it implies I used an alternate account, I said I did. I think it is wrong that it is disallowed, but I didn't know it was a rule because of how hidden it is to other players.

Now this is important: I did read what Xypher said, but I think you need to do a bit more because I don't think we're on the same level of understanding. Click all three of those links to IP bans. All three of those links show my account was unbanned because I proved I wasn't cheating. All of those bans were bans from other players or an admin, not from console by detected hacks. The link where I got a 30 min ban was because a few people on the server !votebanned me. There is one link of an account called "Trash" that is still banned, but the admins just forgot to unban that account.

Using alts isn't against the rules, unless you are avoiding punishments. However it's fairly logical that you shouldn't do this in the first place, in fact threatening to avoid via an alt/VPN will only incline us more to keep the ban in place.

@RulerOfTheFae He is claiming he isn't cheating in the first place, the whole argument isn't over if he can be unbanned for cheating.

The bans on the other communities seem questionable (for the most part), one is a vote ban and a lot of them are removed. However, I think you should provide an explanation for them at least, it's not like any user will have multiple bans on different communities for cheating across multiple alternate accounts, this all raises great suspicion to me.

Yes, it's all one great big mess. I don't want to spam the forums, if there is some way you can ask me questions with private messages that would be fine. I will never admit to cheating, because I never have. Someone above said you have to apologize to be unbanned, but that means I would be apologizing for a reason. I don't have a reason to apologize, but I can give reasons for why I'm not cheating. I would gladly answer every one of your questions whenever you have time.

You're harming yourself more than helping. This is honestly stupid but here we go.
1. Saying "I'll just break the rules again" doesn't help
2. It should be obvious that if you break the rules and get punished you're expected to actually follow that punishment or else it wouldn't mean anything.
3. Whatever having 5 accounts on VigilanteGamers means, it isn't enough to appeal your bans here.
4. Blaming the admins for being "stubborn" rather than admitting you fucked up, once again, won't help your case.

1.) "Again" but I haven't broken any rules yet. The rule is you can't use alt accounts to avoid your ban, but at the time I was using an alt, I didn't have any bans on wonderland.tf.
2.) Yes, that is obvious, obviously. But, going back to #1, I haven't broken a rule yet. If I were to use a VPN, like I said I could, yes, that would be breaking the rules.
3.) Why would it be enough? I don't have 5 accounts on VigilanteGamers, I have 5 accounts on Steam. Those accounts are my alts, and that is my explanation for the multiple accounts. It wasn't supposed to be defining evidence for my case, just a simple explanation, because it's evident that people are very confused.
4.) I haven't fucked up yet, if you mean breaking any rules. I retract my previous statement about admins being stubborn, it's just the owner.

 

[=WL= Ra Ra RasPOOTIS]

I haven't fucked up yet

That's implying that you either have f'ed up elsewhere or are planning to here. Also, disrespect as a whole is punishable in Wonderland, let alone (what I perceive) as disrespect of the owner won't get you very far. So far, your arguments have been nothing but calling our staff incompetent at best. While it is true that staff members (myself included) don't always make the right call, there is a system of checks and balances between mods/admins and super admins that makes the appeal process happen smoothly (thus the unbanning that you quoted). It's not that one admin is better than another, it's that we are all human and sometimes cases take more than one pair of eyes to look at. Disrespecting the community and staff as you have because of what you feel is an injustice is not only disrespectful but it's down right in bad taste. Stating that you could use alt's and VPN's the way you did does nothing but hurt your case as well opening this thread as a veiled attempt to basically call the staff here incompetent.

 

[Noob]

That's implying that you either have f'ed up elsewhere or are planning to here. Also, disrespect as a whole is punishable in Wonderland, let alone (what I perceive) as disrespect of the owner won't get you very far. So far, your arguments have been nothing but calling our staff incompetent at best. While it is true that staff members (myself included) don't always make the right call, there is a system of checks and balances between mods/admins and super admins that makes the appeal process happen smoothly (thus the unbanning that you quoted). It's not that one admin is better than another, it's that we are all human and sometimes cases take more than one pair of eyes to look at. Disrespecting the community and staff as you have because of what you feel is an injustice is not only disrespectful but it's down right in bad taste. Stating that you could use alt's and VPN's the way you did does nothing but hurt your case as well opening this thread as a veiled attempt to basically call the staff here incompetent.

Yeah no worries, I didn't mean it like that! Only the owner is like that, not anyone else based on what I've seen. First impressions are very important. Like, the first time the admins heard about me, I was just some guy who was banned for "aimbotting" on an alt account, so it's understandable that some may and some may not use any kind of rational thinking when considering a ban appeal that's clearly just an insult to the admins.

 

[ephemeral ♡]

Only the owner is like that

You know,That is what hes talking about. And if the owner really was like that do you think he would be this successful or anything?

 

[Noob]

You know,That is what hes talking about. And if the owner really was like that do you think he would be this successful or anything?

Yeah you make a good point man, he's pretty alright at his job if I do say so myself I'm gonna go ahead and get some shut-eye n' hit the hay, retire for the night, call it a day, catch some Z's, do some horizontal engineering, y'know what I'm saying?

 

[ephemeral ♡]

Yeah you make a good point man, he's pretty alright at his job if I do say so myself I'm gonna go ahead and get some shut-eye n' hit the hay, retire for the night, call it a day, catch some Z's, do some horizontal engineering, y'know what I'm saying?

Just learn to control what you say and yourself. And dont say something you don't mean or am lying about. Get a good rest