Accepted Add back afterburn to Jailbreak

[Eight]

With a previous thread I made about completely removing the Pyro nerf (screenshots of it shown in the spoiler below), the conclusion reached was to remove the increased ammo depletion. That was a step in the right direction in my eyes, but I still think we should remove the afterburn immunity on REDs.

The reasoning that Pyro was nerfed in the first place I find questionable. The nerf was placed because Pyro has great potential to mass freekill. While I don't disagree it does, I do not think a class should be nerfed because of this. Many other classes and specific weapons have great potential to mass freekill, such Demoman, Soldier, and the Machina for Snipers. I do not think it's fair that we are removing a vital quality of a class just because it has potential to cause issues. As I explained in the aforementioned thread, the afterburn compensates for lack of immediate damage the Pyro can inflict.

"But it can cause freekills even after the freekilling Pyro is slain."

Yes, it can, but so? If a staff member is on, he/she respawns freekilled users anyway, and if one is not on then Pyro's afterburn isn't a game mechanic that causes a tremendous amount of chaos as much as...well just how a lot of other things in Jailbreak. (I mean, Jailbreak is fundamentally just a deck of cards.)

Again, I don't think it's fair to remove Pyro's afterburn to prevent some freekill instances, as the same amount of damage can be caused by a tremendous amount of other things. For example, you could argue Pyro's airblast should be removed because it can be used to easily freekill REDs in mini-games. Same thing could be said with explosives too because of knockback. Should those classes be nerfed because of that? No.

Spoiler: Previous remove Pyro nerf thread I made

If this doesn't all show, then I'll edit in an Imgur album link instead. Hopefully it will though.

 

[Hypernova]

i wasn't sure at first

but i agree with you after seeing the thread

 

[Forkツ]

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[Neliel]

Is ammo depletion still on or? I don't like it so pls remove if it's not yet.

 

[Eight]

Is ammo depletion still on or? I don't like it so pls remove if it's not yet.

No it isn't, thank God.

 

[pancakes_]

+1

 

[Oreos]

I do not agree with this, the main argument proposed by you that is in favor of keeping the situation as it is is about the mass-freekill issue, but I would like to add a couple new reasons why the Pyro should not get his afterburn back.
My first reason is about how problematic accidental free-hits will become: with the current situation if a Pyro accidentally sets someone on fire because of something like a mis-click the worst that can happen is being heavily insulted by the whole red team before making everyone go to medic, but if afterburn gets implemented into the game-mode again this may result in said free-hitted user burning to death before having a chance at going into the healing room.
My second reason is about pardoning a rebeller which happens to die because of afterburn after being pardoned, which makes the Pyro that had set him on fire previously a freekiller even if he had stopped the active attempt of killing said rebeller. I hope that these two arguments will change the minds of someone as it really is mattern of concern to me.

 

[Eight]

I do not agree with this, the main argument proposed by you that is in favor of keeping the situation as it is is about the mass-freekill issue, but I would like to add a couple new reasons why the Pyro should not get his afterburn back.
My first reason is about how problematic accidental free-hits will become: with the current situation if a Pyro accidentally sets someone on fire because of something like a mis-click the worst that can happen is being heavily insulted by the whole red team before making everyone go to medic, but if afterburn gets implemented into the game-mode again this may result in said free-hitted user burning to death before having a chance at going into the healing room.
My second reason is about pardoning a rebeller which happens to die because of afterburn after being pardoned, which makes the Pyro that had set him on fire previously a freekiller even if he had stopped the active attempt of killing said rebeller. I hope that these two arguments will change the minds of someone as it really is mattern of concern to me.

The combined damage output of a Pyro's immediate damage and afterburn can be equivalent to the immediate damage output by other classes. A Pyro may cause additional freehits or freekills with afterburn, but a Soldier or Demoman, if they freehit, would just have done all that damage instantaneously with their rocket or pill. Honestly, afterburn is just more noticable.

Also no, I would not agree the Pyro would be a freekiller in that situation. In that situation, the Pyro attacked the RED while he/she was still a rebel. Even if the warden let him/her off, dying because of the afterburn is still his/her fault for originally rebelling.

 

[Oreos]

The combined damage output of a Pyro's immediate damage and afterburn can be equivalent to the immediate damage output by other classes. A Pyro may cause additional freehits or freekills with afterburn, but a Soldier or Demoman, if they freehit, would just have done all that damage instantaneously with their rocket or pill. Honestly, afterburn is just more noticable.

Also no, I would not agree the Pyro would be a freekiller in that situation. In that situation, the Pyro attacked the RED while he/she was still a rebel. Even if the warden let him/her off, dying because of the afterburn is still his/her fault for originally rebelling.

Allright then let us have a shot at it.. +1

 

[Lolichu]

I agree, pyro was nerved a bit to hard. Especially the faster ammo depletion. But removing Pyro's afterburn and maybe airblast is actually a good nerv. But removing airblast kinda removes the whole feeling about the entire class since airblasting is a main-/key- feature of pyro. As i remember correctly when afterburn was still was a thing i always complained about on how ultra long the afterburn actually is and how much damage it does by that making it really op and annoying.
Even without the afterburn pyro is still op enough to counter a lot of thing's with the different weapon's pyro has.
As example: using the phlogistinator gives you a HUGE DPS boost with the 100% crits on rage use ending up being able to counter medic campers or quickfix pushes.

The Airblast should stay being a thing. As i previously said: removing it kinda removes the whole feeling about the class. You can also counter a lot of things if airblasting too making it also a really useful feature.
As example: Pushing away uber pushes or airblasting projectiles or even players into a death trigger zone.

Afterburn is just... burning for a long time making w+m1 great again. But it would also make afterburn based weapons good too because i barely see them in general.
As example: The flairgun or the axtinguisher.

Overall the pyro is a good class to use in jailbreak even without after burn and airblasting. Removing airblast still wouldn't ruin pyro completely but quicker ammo depletion would be too much. But since ammo depletion is not a thing anymore neither removing pyro airblasting i would say that pyro is currently in a good state again.

-1 on adding back afterburn.

Edit: talking about freekilling thing

I wouldn't say that pyro need's these restrictions just because of the high MFK potential. As stated above by other's: Other classes have the same or even move potential of MFK'ing. Other classes are just less noticeable because it is done pretty much instantly and not over long period of time. A soldier crit rocket could wipe out all the reds by just a missclick while pyro it would only be a huge damage output.

 

[Prxme]

if dis happpens i guess i'll start medic camping when i'm rebeling

 

[nforce]

chief i'm giving this a minus one, afterburns op, i've been at 70hp and was still killed by it.

 

[nforce]

If you managed to take 70 damage from afterburn it means that you were exposed to the fire for a while, and you probably deserved to die. An accidental whiff of fire from a pyro trying to kill a scout running into the pile of reds will almost certainly not spell your demise.

I see. I have changed my vote to a +1, yet I am still hazy about it. Getting flamed for 1-2 seconds can cause a decent amount of damage, in my experience.

 

[Stao]

Perhaps a solution would be to disable afterburner on just flamethrowers. Enable secondaries and melees. Thatd give pyro a reason to use a flare gun and to use axtiguisher.

 

[Eight]

Perhaps a solution would be to disable afterburner on just flamethrowers. Enable secondaries and melees. Thatd give pyro a reason to use a flare gun and to use axtiguisher.

While this would be a step in the right direction, I still think it should be enabled for primaries too.

 

[Xypher]

Afterburn immunity for red team is removed, available on all servers on next changelog